Saturday, December 20, 2014

Defense of the Gold Standard & the Discovery of Freedom, pt 2 of 7


Muhammad Rasheed - Abdur Rasheed wrote: "Ok. What should the government have done to prevent what happened?"

Regular police enforcement shit. Those directly responsible are brought up on charges and fined all the way up the chain of command. The company given a hard deadline when they need to fix the damage, and if it isn't met shut all of that shit down, confiscate it, and throw them in prison. Or hang them from the gibbet. Whichever is cheaper.

Muhammad Rasheed - Abdur Rasheed wrote: "Who's job is it to catch companies when they pollute? Who reported the chemical company when they realized that the water was contaminated?"

I don't know. Tell me.

Abdur Rasheed - Muhammad wrote: "That's nonsense, and narrow-minded thinking. Currency wouldn't be limited to how much gold we have, when you can just divide the dollar up further."

[blinks]

I'm starting to suspect that you don't even know what the gold standard is.

The gold standard means that the USA carries the amount of gold to back up every cent of our money.

That's just what it was. If you have a fixed amount of gold backing up the equal share of your countries currency...you can't just break down the penny into little sub pennies and everything will be alright, Goober.

We both live on an island and we both trade 10 gold coins between us for goods and services. We both agree that a gold coin is worth a fixed amount of goods and services.

Say you end up with the last remaining fresh water on your side of the island and I have to keep buying my water from you. I get down to my last two gold coins so I cut them both into 300 equal pieces.

Am I NOW the richest man on the island?

Say 10 more people come to our island and they all provide different services and goods that we all need but we only have 10 gold coins.

I guess some people have to die. [grabs beating club]

Or we get the fuck off of this bullshit gold standard.

Muhammad wrote: "The Kuwaiti Dinar (KD) is the highest-valued currency in the world... everybody wants it! The KD is divided into a thousand parts (fils) as opposed to the USD's one hundred parts (cents). A 250/1000 of a KD is powerful. Using this money is what it was like living under the gold standard when the USD was still rock solid."

I didn't realize that Kuwait was still on the gold standard and that they were doing so well.

You just shot holes all in my....Kuwait ain't on no gotdamnit gold standard.

They DO produce valuable shit that most of the free world uses at their entire economy is based on it.

Kuwait is an Army base (for protection) a goat village, and one of the largest OIL fields in the world.

THAT is why their money is so valuable.

Fuck the gold standard!

Abdur Rasheed - Muhammad wrote: "Abdur Rasheed wrote: "Ok. What should the government have done to prevent what happened?"

Regular police enforcement shit. Those directly responsible are brought up on charges and fined all the way up the chain of command. The company given a hard deadline when they need to fix the damage, and if it isn't met shut all of that shit down, confiscate it, and throw them in prison."

Uuuuummmmm...it was just an accident man. Chill! Do you think that company wanted all of this negative publicity?

They just wanted to refine chemicals and make money.

Some valve leaked underground or some shit and nobody knew until the water started to smell funny and the COMPANY did and investigation and reported it to the EPA.

Relax over there Barney Fife and put that bullet away.

See why I'm not living in your crazy libertarian world.

Muhammad Rasheed - Abdur Rasheed wrote: "That's just what it was. If you have a fixed amount of gold backing up the equal share of your countries currency...you can't just break down the penny into little sub pennies and everything will be alright, Goober."

Of COURSE you can. That's what a cent is... the dollar broken down into fractions. It can be broken down even further... issue new notes. That way the dollar will not be watered down from inflation by printing more than the gold we have, and the strength of the dollar will maintain its integrity.

I didn't bring up the KD as an example of them being on the gold standard, but to point out how a further sub-divided currency note looks. 1/1,000 versus our 1/100.

Abdur Rasheed wrote: "Uuuuummmmm...it was just an accident man."

Yeah, okay. Now the WV citizens are apparently drinking motor oil out of bathtubs. They can fix that shit in 60 days... clean it all up... or their CEO will hang from the gibbet.

Abdur Rasheed wrote: "Chill! Do you think that company wanted all of this negative publicity?"

I'm sure their lawyers are trying to figure out how to sue the motherfucker that snitched.

Abdur Rasheed - I didn't mean that you weren't able to breakdown the damn penny. I meant that it doesn't add value and that would be fucking stupid (see: my island scenario.)

Muhammad Rasheed - lol Your island scenario could easily been fixed by breaking down those 10 coins, stupid.

Muhammad Rasheed - smh

Abdur Rasheed - So in your magical world...breaking DOWN money increases the value?

On the gold standard we would be limited on our gold reserves.

Which means that the value of of currency is directly linked to the amount of gold we have in our reserves as a country...and not a dollar more.

That's why they don't want to aide other countries.

The gold standard started to take a shit during WWI we we over extended our gold treasuries.

If your dollar's value is represented by X amount of gold and you run out of gold or simply can't keep up with and economic upturn...breaking down the money that you already have is NOT going to help you.

If I can buy Monsters 101 in paperback for $12 and we run out of gold and therefor cash...how can I buy a copy of Monsters 101?

I divided up all of my pennies ...now what? Can I NOW buy a copy for 100th of a penny?

SWEET!

That sounds stable.

Dumb ass!

Abdur Rasheed - Muhammad wrote: "There wouldn't be any bubbles if we were on the gold standard. "Bubbles" are caused by printing money arbitrarily backed by nothing by the Fed saying "Okay, print some more just because" and inflation threatening to collapse the economy. You don't have an argument on this topic."

No I don't.

Because YOU just made it for me.

Go and look up what the gold standard actually is, and then get back to me.

Start here: "A gold standard is a monetary system in which the standard economic unit of account is based on a FIXED quantity of gold."

Muhammad Rasheed - It's supposed to be a fixed quantity of gold, that's where the stability comes from. Printing more notes than the amount of gold you have creates inflation/instability.

Abdur Rasheed - Yeah, yeah. That's what I said.

THE QUESTION WAS: What happens during a sudden economic boom when your money is limited to a fixed quantity of gold?

Your answer: Break down your pennies.

Retarded answer and shows a lack of understanding of basic economic principals.

Start again.

Abdur Rasheed - Muhammad wrote: "That's nonsense, and narrow-minded thinking. Currency wouldn't be limited to how much gold we have, when you can just divide the dollar up further."

Right there is where you said it.^^^^^^^^ dumb^^^^^^^^

Muhammad Rasheed - Abdur Rasheed wrote: "So in your magical world...breaking DOWN money increases the value?"

Where did I say it increases the value? It already had value; it was worth that exact amount of gold the note represented. Your $1 note is worth 1/20 of an ounce of gold. Break it in half and issue a $0.50 note. That one is worth 1/40 of an ounce of gold. New notes were issued, stability maintained, no inflation.

Abdur Rasheed wrote: "On the gold standard we would be limited on our gold reserves."

Yup. That's how it works. That's its strength.

Abdur Rasheed wrote: "That's why they don't want to aide other countries."

"Aid" other countries doing what?

Abdur Rasheed wrote: "The gold standard started to take a shit during WWI we we over extended our gold treasuries."

1.) World War I began one year after the private banking interests known as the Money Trust slipped the Federal Reserve Act through over the holidays when the politicians they knew would ‘Nay’ it were on leave.
2.) The Money Trust (their super villain name) formed the corporation The Federal Reserve, and in partnership with the US government, were given the job of controlling the nation’s wealth.
3.) They IMMEDIATELY started printing more money that we had in our reserves, creating the very first recession bubble that caused The Great Depression 20 years later.

The gold standard “took a shit” because it was deliberately sabotaged by the villain of the story that wanted it gone. Slow clap for people just like you who are willful dupes because of your ignorant blind faith in a system you only think you understand. Now the economy is screwed up completely and we live in a permanent debt culture. Thanks.

Stop calling me names and argue your case.

Abdur Rasheed - Muhammad Rasheed wrote: "What makes it arbitrary? At the moment you are the only human being in history that doesn't consider gold true wealth."

I'm good with that. You still haven't found a real use for gold yet and you haven't shown why assigning an arbitrary value to a shiny rock is so different than Wall Street assigning an arbitrary value to a house. I'm still waiting. Wheat has more practical value. Laurie's seasoning salt has more value. Fresh water. The active ingredient to deodorant.

Gold is pretty though.

Muhammad wrote: "B...but everybody SAYS its valuable.

Rah: "Oh. Ok. Go get some and hold it tight."

Muhammad wrote: "Even the Federal Reserve, that believes in creating bubbles and recessions from producing money literally from thin air that you're such a big proponent of, has a stockpile of gold for their private company usage."

So you're following the federal reserve when you agree with them?

Nice.

Muhammad wrote: "There wouldn't be any bubbles if we were on the gold standard. "Bubbles" are caused by printing money arbitrarily backed by nothing by the Fed saying "Okay, print some more just because" and inflation threatening to collapse the economy."

[blinks]

Not only do you not hear ME, but you don't even hear yourself.

So printing money arbitrarily is BAD, but printing money based on the arbitrary value of a shiny rock is GOOD?

K

I guess I don't have an argument.

So when are we going back on the gold standard from the early 1900's?

Sounds fun.

Abdur Rasheed - Muhammad wrote: "lol Your island scenario could easily been fixed by breaking down those 10 coins, stupid."

Abdur Rasheed - I know that it's easy to jump head first into conspiracy theories and all, but no war is budgeted.

If you live an a house and every dollar you spend is allocated for a purpose. Then you have a beef with a neighbor and it costs billions of dollars that you didn't plan on spending you are going to go bankrupt.

Now if you were on the gold standard and every dollar HAD to be backed buy gold...you would run out of gold and bankrupt your household.

If we were going to go to was against ze Germans and DIDN'T want to go bankrupt...we HAD to get off the gold standard or at least start making major plans to do so or we would go bankrupt.

I know I know the secret meeting with the illuminati and the lizard people and 'em, but sometimes it's just smarter.


Muhammad Rasheed - Abdur Rasheed wrote: “
I'm good with that. You still haven't found a real use for gold yet…”

FROM WIKI – “The value of gold is rooted in its medium rarity, easily handling, easy smelting, non-corrosiveness, distinct color and non-reactiveness to other elements; qualities most other metals lack. It is a good reflector of electromagnetic radiation such as infrared and visible light as well as radio waves. It is used for the protective coatings on many artificial satellites, in infrared protective faceplates in thermal protection suits and astronauts' helmets and in electronic warfare planes like the EA-6B Prowler. It can be manufactured so thin that it appears transparent. It is used in some aircraft cockpit windows for de-icing or anti-icing by passing electricity through it. The heat produced by the resistance of the gold is enough to deter ice from forming. Plus it is a great conductor of both heat and electricity with the added benefit of corrosion resistance.”

Sounds useful to ME. In fact, in the current technological age it is more practically useful than ever.

Abdur Rasheed wrote: “…and you haven't shown why assigning an arbitrary value to a shiny rock is so different than Wall Street assigning an arbitrary value to a house.”

The above list from the Wiki page proves the value isn’t arbitrary at all.

Abdur Rasheed wrote: “I’m still waiting.”

You are also stubborn and prideful.

Abdur Rasheed wrote: “Wheat has more practical value. Laurie's seasoning salt has more value. Fresh water. The active ingredient to deodorant. Gold is pretty though.”

Gold is permanent, while those items are perishable. All the gold that has ever been mined from the earth is being used now. It does not rust or corrode. Permanence is a fundamentally desired quality in the candidates up for something stable to back up a currency. Gold has won that race over and over since before recorded history. You are the only one who can’t see that.

Abdur Rasheed wrote: “Muhammad wrote: "B...but everybody SAYS its valuable.
Rah: "Oh. Ok. Go get some and hold it tight."
So you're following the federal reserve when you agree with them? Nice."

The very enemy who schemed to remove us off of the gold standard so he could become [more] super rich under the same fiat system that indebted Old Europe and destroyed their economy is SHOWING YOU the true value of gold by hoarding it himself and you still don’t see that. lol

But you called me a dumb ass? Interesting.

Abdur Rasheed wrote: “
[blinks]
Not only do you not hear ME, but you don't even hear yourself.”

At this point in the thread you’ve proved yourself not worth hearing.

Abdur Rasheed wrote: “So printing money arbitrarily is BAD…”

It literally causes inflation bubbles, recessions and depressions.

Abdur Rasheed wrote: “…but printing money based on the arbitrary value of a shiny rock is GOOD?”

Not a single inflation bubble, recession or depression is caused by a stable currency backed by the world’s most consistently precious metal. Literally.

Lol I can’t explain it any more clearer than that.

Abdur Rasheed wrote: “I guess I don't have an argument.”

Not even a LITTLE bit. Don't call me a dumb ass again. Get yourself together on this item.

Abdur Rasheed wrote: “So when are we going back on the gold standard from the early 1900's?”

Why would the Fed give up their gravy train? Let me break down the fiat system again: 1.) I produce money from out of thin air by simply printing the currency. 2.) I assign a value to it based on eenie-meenie-mynie-moe 3.) I loan it to you 4.) I charge you interest and collect your actual wealth (gold!) as payment 5.) when I own all of your gold, the national deficit starts growing 6.) you are now in debt to me forever. CONGRATS!

Abdur Rasheed wrote: “Sounds fun.”

Being debt free is more than fun. It is a blessing, a badge of true freedom, and worth fighting for.

I wish FB let us use bold, italic, and underline.

Muhammad Rasheed - Abdur Rasheed wrote: “I know that it's easy to jump head first into conspiracy theories and all, but no war is budgeted. If you live an a house and every dollar you spend is allocated for a purpose. Then you have a beef with a neighbor and it costs billions of dollars that you didn't plan on spending you are going to go bankrupt. Now if you were on the gold standard and every dollar HAD to be backed buy gold...you would run out of gold and bankrupt your household. If we were going to go to was against ze Germans and DIDN'T want to go bankrupt...we HAD to get off the gold standard or at least start making major plans to do so or we would go bankrupt. I know I know the secret meeting with the illuminati and the lizard people and 'em, but sometimes it's just smarter.”

Why did we enter that war? World War I? Americans were calling it the “European War,” and nobody wanted to enter it. For what? It would’ve cost a fortune in national resources and human lives and it was popular opinion that it wasn’t our fight. Our nation had also consistently rejected the Central Bank’s offers to take over our money system to use the very fiat system that destroyed Europe’s economy. Our economy was strong. Rock solid. But you think it was “just smarter” to hand our financial system over to a private institution that specialized in a finance system that was proven to destroy whole nations for the previous several centuries? You think it was smart for us to enter that war that nobody wanted, that we still haven’t recovered from?

And it doesn’t bother you at all that the private banking institution… not aliens or lizards or none of that… people you actually know, in fact… pushed an act through when most of the voting members were off for the holidays? They did that so that we would give them our money system. So we would enter that war. And you think it was smart. That we’re better for it.

‘Kay.

Muhammad Rasheed - Abdur Rasheed wrote: “Then you have a beef with a neighbor and it costs billions of dollars that you didn't plan on spending you are going to go bankrupt ... If we were going to go to was against ze Germans and DIDN'T want to go bankrupt..."

Then you don't go to war. You fight for peace because the cost of war is too great.

If the world wasn't enslaved to the Central Banking system and its debt-producing tool of fiat, we wouldn't have the current Global War Machine Culture that requires fiat to finance it.

You are right. If we were on the gold standard, it would severely restrict the war machine. So we were tricked off of it, and a year later we were in a ridiculously costly war the American people said wasn't our fight.

Muhammad Rasheed - Imagine being in the current technological age in which there was no war (or much reduced), and we weren't in debt. That's what it would be like if the world was still on the gold standard, and the Central banks were destroyed. "Sounds fun." Fun? It would be a Golden Age of prosperity.

Interesting. Love talking about this stuff because the dots just keep connecting.

Muhammad Rasheed - Abdur Rasheed wrote: "THE QUESTION WAS: What happens during a sudden economic boom when your money is limited to a fixed quantity of gold? Your answer: Break down your pennies."

A consistently stable currency during economic growth and "booms" means the value of the currency increases. The basic currency unit would stretch farther and farther and farther...

...the literal opposite to what inflation does to the currency. Inflation weakens the currency... dilutes it... so that it no longer can buy as much as it used to. A stable currency during economic growth has the opposite effect, and the fractional increments of the currency unit can buy more and more.

Muhammad Rasheed - Under the stable economy of the gold standard in previous US centuries, you could buy two goats and a bag of feed for half a handful of pennies. Today you might be able to buy a gumball with that. With a co-signer.

Abdur Rasheed - Muhammad Rasheed wrote: "FROM WIKI – “The value of gold is rooted in its medium rarity, easily handling, easy smelting, non-corrosiveness, distinct color and non-reactiveness to other elements; qualities most other metals lack. It is a good reflector of electromagnetic radiation such as infrared and visible light as well as radio waves. It is used for the protective coatings on many artificial satellites, in infrared protective faceplates in thermal protection suits and astronauts' helmets and in electronic warfare planes like the EA-6B Prowler. It can be manufactured so thin that it appears transparent. It is used in some aircraft cockpit windows for de-icing or anti-icing by passing electricity through it. The heat produced by the resistance of the gold is enough to deter ice from forming. Plus it is a great conductor of both heat and electricity with the added benefit of corrosion resistance.”

Sounds useful to ME. In fact, in the current technological age it is more practically useful than ever."

That IS pretty useful. I didn't realize how useful gold is.

How big is the market share for cockpit window defrosters?

They must be FLYING off the shelves at Air Plane Depot.

So because EVERYBODY must have an airplane cockpit window defroster explains why gold is in such high demand.

If you would have just said, "Jewelry" it would have made more sense.

I know that gold IS valuable because everybody says to get it, but you can lose you ass investing in gold just as easily as anything else.

It's worth more now more than ever, but its STILL just an inflated price based on the fluctuations of some magic wand, Muhammad. It has ZERO value.

They don't make enough gold plated satellites and twin turbo plane to justify the price. If they made something that everybody could actually use with gold then the price would skyrocket and nobody could afford whatever they were making with it.

I know that is only if we go back to the economy limiting gold standard and we can no longer own it, but the REST of the world wouldn't and as I said its a GLOBAL economy.

Muhammad wrote: "The above list from the wiki page proves..."

That less than .0001% usefulness proves my point unless you have one of the $52 million dollar jets that was made or modified back in the 1960's.

Muhammad wrote: "You are stubborn and prideful."

And rich not based on theories from days long passed.

NOT stubborn and prideful ARBITRARILY.

I know what works. I am recession proof because I don't get caught in bubbles. Gold or otherwise.

Muhammad Rasheed wrote: "Gold is permanent, while those items are perishable. All the gold that has ever been mined from the earth is being used now. It does not rust or corrode. Permanence is a fundamental desired quality in the candidates for something stable to back up a currency. Gold has won that race over and over since before recorded history. You are the only one who can’t see that."

So are most of the elements on the periodic table.

So are PCB's.

Diamonds.

Did you every ask why gold over diamonds?

Who would benefit?

I just spent a SHIT LOAD of money on diamond tipped drill bits. Gold drill bits are useless btw.

Muhammad wrote: "The very enemy who schemed to remove us off of the gold standard so he could become [more] super rich under the same fiat system that indebted Old Europe and destroyed their economy is SHOWING YOU the true value of gold by hoarding it himself and you still don’t see that. lol
But you called me a dumb ass? Interesting."

Space aliens again, Eh?

Ok.

Scary.

Abdur Rasheed wrote: “…but printing money based on the arbitrary value of a shiny rock is GOOD?”

Muhammad wrote: "Not a single inflation bubble, recession or depression is caused under a stable currency backed by the world’s most consistently precious metal. Literally.

Lol I can’t explain it any more clearer than that. "

I know you can't.

Because you would be wrong.

When your money is limited by your gold reserves your economy crawls at a snails pace.

If you have goods to sell you cannot raise your price.

Breaking down the penny won't help you.

Recessions happen when people panic and start snatching money out of the economy and burying it in the yard.

People panic when their money is supports by the arbitrary whims of the market.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panic_of_1907

We were ON the gold standard in 1907 and there was no Federal Reserve.

I know the evil lizard people and space ships did it, but here in the real world...a bubble is a bubble and a BAD idea is just a fucking bad idea.

Rah

Abdur Rasheed - The idea of increasing value by breaking down the penny IS stupid.

Abdur Rasheed - Muhammad Rasheed wrote: "Under the stable economy of the gold standard in previous US centuries, you could buy two goats and a bag of feed for half a handful of pennies. Today you might be able to buy a gumball with that. With a co-signer."

You think that the only difference in the cost of living in the early 1900's and 2014 is the fiat banking system???

K

Abdur Rasheed - Have you abandoned the notion that breaking down pennies adds value?

Muhammad Rasheed - Abdur Rasheed wrote: “If you would have just said, "Jewelry" it would have made more sense.”

It was the above-listed properties that make it valuable in science/industry, jewelry, and a stable precious metal to back currency. Toss it aside as you like, Abdur. I guarantee it won’t lay there for long despite your stubborn insistence that it’s not actually valuable in anyway. A trillion, trillion human beings going all the way back to Adam will disagree with you. Pigs don’t care much for pearls either I hear.

Abdur Rasheed wrote: “I know that gold IS valuable because everybody says to get it, but you can lose you ass investing in gold just as easily as anything else.”

Yeah, compare how gold functions as a stable backing of currency to how it functions now under the Central Banks’ fiat system where it’s used as just another commodity. THAT’S the same. Sure. Lol

Abdur Rasheed wrote: “It's worth more now more than ever…”

In context because of the current usage in our technological society.

Abdur Rasheed wrote: “…but its STILL just an inflated price based on the fluctuations of some magic wand, Muhammad.”

The price of the dollar is what is being manipulated, giving the illusion that those items are fluctuating in value. A troy ounce of gold will buy the same thing today as it would’ve bought 2,000 years ago.

Abdur Rasheed wrote: “It has ZERO value.”

Things with zero value are rarely hoarded, sir.

Abdur Rasheed wrote: “They don't make enough gold plated satellites and twin turbo plane to justify the price. If they made something that everybody could actually use with gold then the price would skyrocket and nobody could afford whatever they were making with it.”

Everyone uses jewelry. People use gold for all kinds of things; its stats make it suitable for lots of things. [casual skim down the WIKI page] Oh, look. Gold is used in medicine. Sounds pretty valuable to ME. It has well-known uses in dentistry, and it has numerous applications making it a vital component for the electron microscope. But let me stop. That’s probably not valuable to you either, amIright? Stupid science!

Abdur Rasheed wrote: “I know that is only if we go back to the economy limiting gold standard and we can no longer own it, but the REST of the world wouldn't and as I said its a GLOBAL economy.”

Yeah. So what does that mean exactly? We wouldn’t have a global economy otherwise? lol We could still do business with other nations… did not the ancients import/export? Explain yourself. Because the only component of a global economy that thrives on the fiat system is the War for Profit industry, as you yourself were so kind to shine a spotlight upon.

Abdur Rasheed wrote: “
That less than .0001% usefulness proves my point unless you have one of the $52 million dollar jets that was made or modified back in the 1960's.”

It has usefulness in industry, but it also has recognized universal value that is based on its natural properties, properties that make it the perfect candidate to back a currency as it has proved for ages. Meanwhile the Central Bank’s preferred object to back a currency known as “zero” is the very worst candidate that has proven for centuries to create only debt while making a tiny fraction of the population obscenely rich. lol I don’t even understand what cause you think you are fighting for in this thread.

Abdur Rasheed wrote: “
And rich not based on theories from days long passed.”

Foolishness. You are rich based on learning what you need to learn, and applying hard-won developed skills to a particular goal path. You would probably be more wealthy underneath the goal standard and consistently growing economy.

Abdur Rasheed wrote: “I know what works.”

Not on this topic.

Abdur Rasheed wrote: “ I am recession proof because I don't get caught in bubbles. Gold or otherwise.”

Staying out of debt traps and guarding against it makes anybody recession proof. But this fiat system is rigged to pull people into debt.

Abdur Rasheed wrote: “
So are most of the elements on the periodic table.”

You just pulled that out of your butt.

Abdur Rasheed wrote: “So are PCB's. Diamonds. Did you every ask why gold over diamonds?”

So you can pound a diamond flat until it is transparent? And mercury? And uranium? And aluminum? lol And radon?
Smh

Abdur Rasheed wrote: “Who would benefit?”

Yeah, compare how gold functions as a stable backing of currency to how it functions now under the Central Banks’ fiat system where it’s used as just another commodity. THAT’S the same. Sure. Lol

Abdur Rasheed wrote: “I just spent a SHIT LOAD of money on diamond tipped drill bits. Gold drill bits are useless btw.”

Wow that was… remarkably relevant to this topic. How did you DO that???

Abdur Rasheed wrote: “
But you called me a dumb ass? Interesting.">
Space aliens again, Eh? Ok. Scary.”

FROM WIKI – “Central banks continue to keep a portion of their liquid reserves as gold in some form…”

Why do that if it has no value?

Abdur Rasheed wrote: “
Lol I can’t explain it any more clearer than that. ">
I know you can't. Because you would be wrong.”

Not. The flaw lies in the receiver, not the messenger.

Muhammad Rasheed - Abdur Rasheed wrote: “When your money is limited by your gold reserves your economy crawls at a snails pace.”

Lol

1. Define “a snail’s pace.”
2. So?

The currency is stable and the economy continues to grow “at a snail’s pace” consistently. Lol I’m supposed to be afraid of this scenario, Abdur, and prefer continuous recession bubbles, a consistently weakening dollar and a debt culture instead? Do you hear yourself?

A-Rah wrote: “Under the gold standard our stable economy would unfortunately only boom at a snail’s pace so we should vote for a truly FUCKED UP! economy instead. It’s smarter.”

Right. "Smarter." Whose side are you on exactly? Do you hate us?

Abdur Rasheed wrote: “If you have goods to sell you cannot raise your price.”

Sure I can! If supply and demand call for it I can raise my price to where the market will sustain it. A certain good I sell is scarce but the people are demanding more, so I can raise my price up from 1/1,000,000 of a gold-backed cent to 5/1,000,000 of a gold backed cent.

Abdur Rasheed wrote: “Breaking down the penny won't help you.”

lol smh Lord help me.

Abdur Rasheed wrote: “Recessions happen when people panic and start snatching money out of the economy and burying it in the yard. People panic when their money is supports by the arbitrary whims of the market. [WIKI - Panic_of_1907] We were ON the gold standard in 1907 and there was no Federal Reserve.”

The panic of ’07 was also a tiny little thing that didn’t adversely affect the nation’s economy. People didn't lose confidence in the gold-backed currency, they lost faith in the banks holding their savings and wanted to hold onto it themselves. The banks took a loss and JP Morgan advised his people to come out of pocket to save their money-lending businesses. The only regular citizens who were affected negatively lost in stock market drops from betting everything on that copper company, and from the folk who were doing that unregulated side betting stuff. The banks got fucked up by that panic, and certain over-enthusiastic investors, but the citizens and the economy were fine. And notice that the banks had to bail THEMSELVES out. Imagine that?

Yeah, keep talking. You make 1907 sound good as hell compared to now (economically).

Muhammad Rasheed - Abdur Rasheed wrote: "Have abandoned the notion that breaking down pennies adds value?"

Sure, since I didn't say that.

The currency already has value... the gold that backs it, remember? The currency increases in value at your "snail's pace" as the stable economy continues to grow. As the currency increases in value, it is able to purchase more, so you can break the unit down in smaller amounts. Over time the future dime will have the same purchase power as the current dollar, and you'll be able to break it down even further if you need to. Breaking it down doesn't add the value. You break it down to take advantage of the consistently added value that builds "at a snail's pace."

Got it yet?

That's the 180 degree polar opposite to what inflation does. With inflation, you print more than what you actually possess which creates debt and dilutes the dollar. The one makes an economy prosper, the other destroys the economy.

Muhammad Rasheed - Abdur Rasheed wrote: "
You think that the only difference in the cost of living in the early 1900's and 2014 is the fiat banking system???"

A strawman? I wasn't expecting that from you. I'm disappointed.

Am I arguing between the differences in cost of living between eras, or am I arguing the purchasing power of the currency itself comparing gold standard versus fiat? Stay focused, please.

Muhammad Rasheed - Abdur's article wrote: "justices across the ideological spectrum questioned whether President Barack Obama legally appointed three members of the National Labor Relations Board in January 2012. The case is the court’s first look at a constitutional provision that lets the president make temporary appointments to high-level posts during Senate recesses. Several justices indicated they accepted the argument, made jointly by a company facing NLRB sanctions and Senate Republicans, that the chamber wasn’t in a recess when Obama made the appointments. At stake is the scope of a power the Obama administration says has been used thousands of times since the country’s founding."

That's not the first time the president has taken a move like that in history for his own use. Didn't he pull a George Bush and pull some money out and go after Syria the same way Bush did in the War on Terror?

Obviously that recess temp thing is there for emergencies, but should a major law that has been consistently shot down literally since the country's founding be allowed to be passed through on that kind of super slick temp appointment loop hole when ALL Americans since forever said "Fuck no!" to giving our money to the Central Banks? Temp appointments should only be used to pass through baby laws, not major laws that you KNOW their political opponents are against because of an actual rock solid reason why not, and folk have to wait for them to go on vacation to pass.

Now that you've found this little tidbit, do you still think the fraudulent way the Fed Reserve Act being passed was just a conspiracy fantasy? You found the bloody glove yourself! lol

Jeremy Travis - Only commenting so that I can continue to receive notifications. Carry on.

Muhammad Rasheed - Proven by a United States congressional subcommittee which was formed between May 1912 and January 1913.


Muhammad Rasheed - The Money Trust comes together to workout their fiat gravy train and plan how they would unleash the beast upon the US.

Jekyll Island was the location of a meeting in November 1910 in which draft legislation was written to create the U.S. Federal Reserve. Following the Panic of 1907, banking reform became a major issue in the United States. Senator Nelson Aldrich (R-RI), chairman of the National Monetary Commission, went to Europe for almost two years to study that continent's banking systems. Upon his return, he brought together many of the country's leading financiers to Jekyll Island to discuss monetary policy and the banking system, an event which was the impetus for the creation of the Federal Reserve.

On the evening of November 22, 1910, Sen. Aldrich and A.P. Andrews (Assistant Secretary of the United States Treasury Department), Paul Warburg (a naturalized German representing Kuhn, Loeb & Co.), Frank A. Vanderlip (president of the National City Bank of New York), Henry P. Davison (senior partner of J. P. Morgan Company), Charles D. Norton (president of the Morgan-dominated First National Bank of New York), and Benjamin Strong (representing J. P. Morgan), together representing about one fourth the world's wealth at the time, left Hoboken, New Jersey on a train in complete secrecy, dropping their last names in favor of first names, or code names, so no one would discover who they all were. The excuse for such powerful representatives and wealth was to go on a duck hunting trip on Jekyll Island.

Forbes magazine founder Bertie Charles Forbes wrote several years later:

Picture a party of the nation’s greatest bankers stealing out of New York on a private railroad car under cover of darkness, stealthily riding hundreds of miles South, embarking on a mysterious launch, sneaking onto an island deserted by all but a few servants, living there a full week under such rigid secrecy that the names of not one of them was once mentioned, lest the servants learn the identity and disclose to the world this strangest, most secret expedition in the history of American finance. I am not romancing; I am giving to the world, for the first time, the real story of how the famous Aldrich currency report, the foundation of our new currency system, was written... The utmost secrecy was enjoined upon all. The public must not glean a hint of what was to be done. Senator Aldrich notified each one to go quietly into a private car of which the railroad had received orders to draw up on an unfrequented platform. Off the party set. New York’s ubiquitous reporters had been foiled... Nelson (Aldrich) had confided to Henry, Frank, Paul and Piatt that he was to keep them locked up at Jekyll Island, out of the rest of the world, until they had evolved and compiled a scientific currency system for the United States, the real birth of the present Federal Reserve System, the plan done on Jekyll Island in the conference with Paul, Frank and Henry... Warburg is the link that binds the Aldrich system and the present system together. He more than any one man has made the system possible as a working reality.


Muhammad Rasheed - Criticisms of the Federal Reserve Act

Throughout the history of the United States, there has been an enduring economic and political debate regarding the costs and benefits of central banking. Since the inception of a central bank in the United States, there were two major opposing views to this type of economic system. Opposition was based on protectionist sentiment; a central bank would serve a handful of financiers at the expense of small producers, businesses, farmers and consumers, and could destabilize the economy through speculation and inflation. Proponents argued that a strong banking system could provide enough credit for a growing economy and avoid economic depressions. Preceding the creation of the Federal Reserve, no U.S. central banking systems lasted for more than 25 years. Some of the questions raised include: whether Congress has the Constitutional power to delegate its power to coin money or issue paper money, whether the structure of the federal reserve is transparent enough, whether the Federal Reserve is a public Cartel of private banks (also called a banking cartel) established to protect powerful financial interests, low but steady increases in inflation, high government deficits, and whether the Federal Reserve's actions increased the severity of the Great Depression in the 1930s  (and/or the severity or frequency of other boom-bust economic cycles, such as the late 2000s recession).


Muhammad Rasheed - Abdur Rasheed wrote: "This conversation is like the difference between the first Wall Street movie and the second one. In the first one the worst thing that they could think of in the financial market was insider trading. In the second one insider training was laughable it was so insignificant."

How does that relate to this conversation? Explain.

Abdur Rasheed - Muhammad wrote: "Abdur Rasheed wrote: “If you would have just said, "Jewelry" it would have made more sense.”

It was the above-listed properties that make it valuable in science/industry..."

What do I do again?

They named one part from one aircraft that they only made 170 of them and they no longer make them. That is the worst business model I have ever heard of. If they used gold wiring in every house then nobody could afford to buy a house. Wiring a typical house would cost well over 10 Million dollars alone. We use copper wiring in every house in the country. Copper has many ACTUAL uses in science and industry. Why is gold more valuable than copper? What makes the cost of commodities fluctuate?

Muhammad wrote: "..., jewelry,"

What makes the cost of jewelry fluctuate? You either want a big stoopid dookie chain around your neck or you don't from year to year. Is it more valuable from year over year. I'm talking about TRUE useful value and not bubble value that fluctuates with the market or the whines of the panicked masses.

Muhammad wrote: "...and a stable precious metal to back currency."

You have the cart ahead of the horse on this one. If gold wasn't arbitrarily assigned fake value not based on any usefulness then this one wouldn't be on your list.

Abdur Rasheed - Muhammad wrote: "...and a stable precious metal to back currency."

You have the cart ahead of the horse on this one. If gold wasn't arbitrarily assigned fake value not based on any usefulness then this one wouldn't be on your list.

Muhammad wrote: " I Toss it aside as you like, Abdur. I guarantee it won’t lay there for long despite your stubborn insistence that it’s not actually valuable in anyway. A trillion, trillion human beings going all the way back to Adam will disagree with you. Pigs don’t care much for pearls either I hear."

I don't think you understand my point (despite me saying it a thousand times.)

We are talking about TWO different things.

1. Gold has arbitrary value based upon the sketchy whims of the market and nothing more like any other commodity.

And

2. We, as a country, should go back on the gold standard and what that would mean for the economy.

Regarding #1 I don't worship gold. I recognize it as a shiny stone that people think that they can't live without.

If I have the opportunity to buy it low and sell it high I would get in it and then QUICKLY get the fuck out if it. If I tie up all of my money in gold and the price takes a dump then I could lose my ass.

I like my ass.

I invest in the most stable commodity...ME. I have yet to let me down.

I don't waste time moaning about how we should go back to the old days before anybody I knew was even heard of after you admit will never return because of some super evil genius that you couldn't pick out of a line up if he robbed you with a musket.

Muhammad: "You know what we should all do?"

Rah: "What's that Bro?"

Muhammad: "We should all start wearing top hats and tails and start going to cotillions like they did in the good old days."

Rah: "Whuh?"

Muhammad wrote: "Those were the days. Before the evil base ball cap Industry monopolized the market. Those evil fuckers!"

Rah: "What in the F..."

Muhammad wrote: "THOSE were the good old days alright. I'm just going to sit here and meditate on how sweet it would be if I had a top hat and awesome tails on right now. Mmmmmmmmmmm Top hat mmmmmmmmmmmm tails mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm."

Rah: "Yeah. Look Muhammad...I'm going to the office.

Muhammad: "Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm top hat mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm tails mmmmmmmmmm everybody else is dumb mmmmmmmmmmm"

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